NWA50AX / NWA210AX - questions

undsie · January 2022

Dear Zyxel support,

I am a "curious" owner of both the APs in the topic title and I have some questions/things that are not clear.

Not sure how to start this, but here I go:

I did some test on both of these access points and I am finding some differences between the power levels at different settings.

All tests were done at 80Mhz, AX, Europe(country code: RO), base channels: 36, 52, 100.

NWA50AX – AX: max EIRP as per certification: 199.07 mW / 22.99 dBm(EU 5150-5350); 997.70 mW / 29.98 dBm(Max EIRP-5Ghz-EU 5740-5725); actual transmit power: 23 dBm / 23 dBm / 26 dBm - this looks ok.

NWA210AX – AX: max EIRP as per certification: 183.23 mW /22.629 dBm (Max EIRP-5Ghz-EU 5150-5350); 899.20 mW / 29.53 dBm (Max EIRP-5Ghz-EU 5740-5725); actual transmit power: 16 dBm / 16 dBm / 22 dBm. - this looks not ok.

So, I will try to ask my questions per device and as a general Zyxel device approach.

NWA50AX:

- Q01: I have 2 devices that are making a "hissing" noise when high speed transfers are taking place(cheap capacitors?); is this ok or not?

- Q02: Mesh feature: If I connect 2 APs(NWA50AX) to a switch and enable k/r/v, will the handover be done in a real mesh approach(seamless) or this "mesh" thing works only over wireless(WDS)?

- Q02-1: regarding the "mesh" question above, can I mix some NWA50AX with some NWA210AX and get the same functionality?

- Q03: what is the maximum speed I can obtain from this access point using an AX201 client/Win11; I was able to get ~60MB/s, which seems low, but fair; I would like to know the maximum speed in real life conditions. I am sure tests were done internally for this.

NWA210AX:

- Q05: it seems that the AP is allowed and able to transmit/emit higher that it actually does(at least compared with NWA50AX; is this a firmware issue or something else? Personally, if allowed, I want to be able to control the upper/lower limits as per EU regulations(please see the attached pictures). So, I want maximum power that the AP can provide in the EU, without artificial limitations(I guess 22dBm on on 5Ghz channels if I understand the wiki page right).

- Q06: POE:

I have used the following to power the AP:

https://eu.store.ui.com/collections/operator-accessories/products/u-poe-at - limited power;

https://shopdelta.eu/product_flypage_l2_p17194.html - limited power;

https://mikrotik.com/product/RB960PGS - 48V/2.5A adapter- normal power(if I recall right);

If I enable "Force override the power mode to full power" the AP works ok, so I am not sure if this is a firmware problem, or a POE adapter problem. The same POE adapters work ok on the NWA50AX.

-Q07: does the number of antennas influence the allowed power emission limit? In the sense that if I have more chains, then the power goes lower? NWA210AX has 2, NWA210AX has 4...so...the power limit is lower in the case of the NWA210AX?

-Q08: speed: - I did some tests with an AX201 Intel card(Dell laptop, Win 11), and I was able to get ~113 MB/s; is there a limit on the AP/uplink port? The uplink negotiated at 1000Mb/s; I would like to know the maximum speed in real life conditions. I am sure tests were done internally for this. I also know that there was a "bug" that limited the speed to ~1Gbit/ client. Was that fixed?

Common questions/comments (for both NWA50AX/NWA210AX):

- the default admin account cannot be disabled; this is..not recommended;

- the light on the NWA210AX is...well...big; you should have kept the size of the NWA50AX(personal opinion); It would be nice to be able to actually schedule the LED suppression;

- I do not need 8/16/whatever SSID profiles/ I need one profile for 2.4Ghz and 1 profile for 5Ghz; can I delete the rest? I mean...why should I have things that I am not using anyway? If I want new ones, fines, I can create;

- How can I change the country after the initial configuration?; I've managed to block my radios on the NWA210AX because the main SSID profile country was not matching the rest?(the main was CN, the rest were RO); this was doing some tests regarding emmision power;

- FTP/HTTP/telnet should be by default disabled on initial(out-of-the-box) start; if I want to enable then, fine, if not, they should be off;

- I really don't like that emails/SSID passwords are "plain text" in the diagnostic logs; it is not your problem what my passwords are; these should be "one-way" encrypted; I know there were discussions regarding this aspect, but still, those should be encrypted by default;

- I need to be able to set my uplink/other port speed manually; I know the standard says auto/auto, but most of the APs allow you to set 1000Mbit/full duplex or similar;

- It would have been wonderfull if the mounting plates were the same size, in the sense that I can just remove a NWA50AX and slip in a NWA210AX; cheaper for you and less stress/work for me on the long run(I assume it is simpler to just order 20 000 plates the same size, instead of 10 000 and 10 000;

For the positive things:

- power supply in the package;

- physical size;

- mounting plate(plastic, but I hope it will last for a lot of time; it seems fairly solid at least for now;

- screws in the package: well done;

- neutral package: well done; anyway it goes to the trash;

All the tests were done using the latest firmware for both APs:

NWA50AX	V6.25(5) / 2021-12-27 11:18:14
NWA210AX	V6.25(ABTD.2) / 2021-10-18 02:20:40

I am not considering myself a wireless networking expert, but the above did "ring some bells". Please see the attached pictures, especially the excel screenshot and please consider the above as "positive suggestions".

My apologies if this message was too "rough". I have attached some relevant pictures. I can also provide some diagnostic logs that were taken shortly after the tests.

Thank you kindly for your time and support.

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/xq/6k0dkff78zg3.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/85/21ecdi5m4d9i.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/aw/u3f52zrkl2gs.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/rd/fxl6wp2fr6md.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/b7/g44gtwdmt7bs.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/ng/0zejpl1jakwf.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/x5/iw27318yfvcy.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/wc/ovont7xcyo9r.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/as/196vz8eero7r.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/xv/pfrbov3t7knb.png

undsie · May 2022

Hi Zyxel_Dick,

Q22: I can confirm the wifi is going off now.

May I ask when these changes will be incorporated in the release/official firmware? Not in a hurry, just curiois;

For Q3 we reached some interesting conclusions, but 10+/10 for the Zyxel support.

Thank you kindly for your time and support.

undsie · May 2022

Hi Nebula_CSO,

Thank you for your answers.

For me this thread is closed. Not really sure how to mark it as "änswered".

Thank you (the Zyxel team) again for your wonderfull support. You can close this subject/thread.

Best regards...

Zyxel_Silvia · January 2022

Hi @undsie ,

We’re thankful for your serious testing and useful feedback.

1.mesh and roaming

With same SSID name and same security, device can process roaming and fast roaming between Zyxel APs.

Our mesh can be established between Zyxel APs (It can work fine between NWA50AX and NWA210AX)

2.about the specification, you may refer the datasheet

https://www.zyxel.com/products_services/802-11ax--WiFi-6--Dual-Radio-PoE-Access-Point-NWA50AX/specifications

https://www.zyxel.com/products_services/802-11ax--WiFi-6--Dual-Radio-PoE-Access-Point-NWA210AX/specification

3.when AP in the limited power mode, it will use less antenna to transfer and receive.

We suggest you to use the original factory adapter or you may also check the switch for enough power supply.

4. about SSID passwords are "plain text" in the diagnostic logs

It would be enhanced in firmware V6.30, please stay tuned.

5.we would suggest you to use Nebula to control your AP,

And you may also change country setting through Nebula.

6.our uplink speed is auto negotiation, it can’t be set so far.

We would get back to you with further information.

Silvia

Zyxel_Silvia · January 2022

you may disable SSID profile in AP management >WLAN setting

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/44/8kh5z00qxcyi.png

undsie · January 2022

Zyxel_Silvia said:

Hi @undsie ,

We’re thankful for your serious testing and useful feedback.

1.mesh and roaming

With same SSID name and same security, device can process roaming and fast roaming between Zyxel APs.

Our mesh can be established between Zyxel APs (It can work fine between NWA50AX and NWA210AX)
***The connection can be wired between APs or only wireless(WDS)? WDS kind of halfens the bandwith so...wired backhaul would be a very big "+" for Zyxel APs in standalone mode.

2.about the specification, you may refer the datasheet

https://www.zyxel.com/products_services/802-11ax--WiFi-6--Dual-Radio-PoE-Access-Point-NWA50AX/specifications

https://www.zyxel.com/products_services/802-11ax--WiFi-6--Dual-Radio-PoE-Access-Point-NWA210AX/specification

***I've read the datasheet; the values are in the screenshot of the excel file. Maybe you can ask the engineering team to share the intended transmit values set for each frequency/setting.
Something like: 20 MHz: channel 36 26dBm.
My apologies for insisting in this issue, but compared with NWA50AX the transmit power is lower even when using in 20Mhz channels. I did some more tests and attached a picture comparing both models. I don;t know, it just seems that the transmit power for Band 1 should be higher(~20dBm I guess).

3.when AP in the limited power mode, it will use less antenna to transfer and receive.

We suggest you to use the original factory adapter or you may also check the switch for enough power supply.
***I did some new tests (please see picture below and I am happy to report that I got the same results using the original adapter from a NWA210AX and no disconnections. I would assume this means that at least for a light load, the mentioned POE adapters can be used. Or maybe it is some kind of POE autodetection issue on either side. Either way, the "Force override the power mode to full power" bypasses this so for me is only a curiosity. Please do not touch that option in firmware

4. about SSID passwords are "plain text" in the diagnostic logs

It would be enhanced in firmware V6.30, please stay tuned.
***Thank you for your answer. I am curious what new things will that firmware bring.

5.we would suggest you to use Nebula to control your AP,

And you may also change country setting through Nebula.
***Nebula is not an option in many industries unfortunately. Some clients just want to replace the APs, while keeping the existing infrastructure intact. Cloud management is not really an option, since it is forbidden by all kinds of internal regulations.

6.our uplink speed is auto negotiation, it can’t be set so far.
***Fair enough, it is not really that important but it might be a "+" for certain possible clients.

We would get back to you with further information.
***I really appreciate your time and effort to answer the above.

Silvia

Hi Silvia,

Thank you for your time in reading my questions.

Please see my answers and comments under yours marked with *** .

I appreciate your effort.

I would like to add some more info, since this seems to become a more "developed" thread regarding NWA210AX /NWA50AX.

I did some tests using the NWA210AX power adapter on a new/different 210AX/50AX and the results are in the attached/below picture:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/n4/4geaizjm9w1d.png

For me it seems that for NWA210AX the band1/band2 transmit power is just too low. I think the values should be something like 16/160Mhz for channels 36-64, if I compare with NWA50AX.

One curious thing that I noticed, this time for NWA50AX is that while I was testing/changing frequencies, in certain cases I got something like ... example:

- start test on band1/80Mhz from left to right

- all looks/works ok until you reach band2/channel52;

- when setting band2/channel52 and hitting apply, and then checking the AP status, I actually got channel 52/20Mhz/23dBm.

I have marked with yellow the situations that I have encountered. Most are for 50AX, but I got an interesting occurence for 210AX: following the same approach, for channel 60/64/40Mhz (selected channel was 64), for a small period of time the transmission power jumped to 23dBm(at least according to the AP status interface). After a few seconds, I've refreshed the page and the value returned to 16dBm. A similar occurence but with 30dBm.

I don't consider this behaviour a bug or something, but it might indicate some problems in the web/http/scripts/whatever sets/reads the actual transmit power. If this is the case, then it is also possible that the calculations for the transmission power that gets applied to the radio has some issues in certain situations. For some, I used WiFi Analyzer (Android) and the channel was 20Mhz, so it was not an interface/value display issue.

Please see some example pictures below:

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/j3/dx4cbnr4pvdq.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/3h/h80pq2dieozr.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/5d/hvhc31qna3x3.png

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/6029482/uploads/editor/ru/3vxdsbha93r1.png

It would also be nice if you can add to the documentation the Radiation pattern: H/V-plane and whatever other relevant info about the antenna emission pattern(as an example https://www.zyxelguard.com/Antennas-Cables.asp).

Do you have an ETA for similar APs but with WIFI6E for EU?

My apologies for the long reply.

Please take these not as critics, but as improvement ideas.

My apologies for the long reply.

Thank you kindly for your time.

Best regards...

Zyxel_Richard · January 2022

Hi Sir,

For the output power display topic, we'll further investigate in it and share any update with you.

For the ETA of Wi-Fi6E, we'll launch the product in the 2H of 2022. For more detail news, we'll share it when the date gets closer, please follow our official website

Best Regards,
Richard

undsie · January 2022

Hi Richard,

Thank you for your answer.

There are a lot of questions that are still waiting answers(if possible of course): QOS limit, wired bachhaul, reals speed tests/whining/coil noise with NWA50AX ...and so on..

My apologies for being a pesky customer.

Thank you.

Zyxel_Silvia · January 2022

Hi @undsie ,

AP performance is not decided by TX power only. AP performance is effected by TX power, RX sensitivity and Antenna design. Different Antenna design is optimized for different environment and installation.

Zyxel AP is optimized for specific use scenarios.

NWA50AX is design for SB and SOHO. Normally, user use only one AP in working space. So, NWA50AX has omni-directional antenna and bigger TX power to have bigger coverage.

"correct and add more addition information here:
RF power of NWA50AX and NWA210AX
Because NWA210AX is 4x4 antenna design, it has array gain 3dB and the antenna gain is 3 dB higher than NWA50AX.
EU RF regulation is EIRP, the power of NWA210AX isn’t smaller than NWA50AX."

NWA210AX is target SMB environment and user install multiple AP in working space. It has to solve interference issue between AP and AP.

To have better performance in multiple AP installation, NWA210AX is smaller TX power, special antenna design and better Isolation to resolve this issue.

4 streams in 5GHz also provide better service quality in transmission.

If the NWA50AX hissing sound really disturb you, we suggest you to process RMA in local reseller.

Thank you.

Silvia

undsie · January 2022

Hi Sylvia,

I know...

What wories me is that I've seen 3 NWA50AX bought in ~ 4 months from 2 different retailers and they all have the same noise. RMA ...and then ...what?....get the same problem on the new ones? Exchange all 3 for a NWA210AX(2 different retailers so not possible) ? The "get your money back period is long overdue". It would be nice if you can answer the rest of the questions, but even so, I understand that not all questions can be answered. If I have any more things that are not clear, I will contact support.

Thank you again for your patience and professional approach in answering my questions.

Zyxel_Silvia · February 2022

Hi @undsie,

Thanks again for your positive suggestion,

We want to summarize the above questions,

1. RF power of NWA50AX and NWA210AX

Because NWA210AX is 4x4 antenna design, it has array gain 3dB and the antenna gain is 3 dB higher than NWA50AX.

EU RF regulation is EIRP, the power of NWA210AX isn’t smaller than NWA50AX.

2. throughput test

Based on our test, the maximum NWA50AX throughput can reach 75~85MB/s,

(we would suggest you test in the environment with less interference and no co-channel usage. We also suggest you to use jperf or iperf as test utility and send 8 sessions at the same time.)

about Q8,

Can you share how did you test?

Based on our test, when we use 160MHz with uplink 2.5G, it can reach 1.5~1.7Gb/s.

3. hissing noise issue

Based on our design and the quality test,

We will ensure the product without electrical noise.

we want to analyze the issued device on your hand and please PM me and provide us your contact information.

Our team will contact you and call back the devices.

4.PoE injector

We check your Mikrotik injector is using passive PoE.

This is the reason why it shows limited power; it provides AF power capability by default, but if it has the ability to provide AT power, we suggest to use force override the power.

5.roaming and 802.11r

Both wireless and WDS support roaming and fast roaming.

But standalone mode AP doesn’t support 802.11r

Because it should work with the group message.

(our Nebula support 802.11r)

6.coutry code

You may set through wizard or radio setting in standalone mode.

For the rest of the positive suggestion, we really appreciate your feedback and consider to enhance in the future.

Silvia

jpblanch75 · February 2022

Zyxel_Silvia said:

5.roaming and 802.11r

Both wireless and WDS support roaming and fast roaming.

But standalone mode AP doesn’t support 802.11r

Because it should work with the group message.

(our Nebula support 802.11r)

Silvia

I'm confused here. There are multiple posts by employees in these forums that state 802.11r are "Auto-Enabled in Standalone Mode"

So.....which is it? Not having Fast Roaming in Standalone mode would be very disappointing.

Zyxel_Silvia · February 2022

Hi @jpblanch75,

with same SSID and same security, stations can process roaming successfully.

AP support 802.11k/v in standalone mode.

About fast roaming (802.11r), APs need to exchange key information, that's the reason why it only support in controller mode or Nebula mode.
whatever which mode, fast roaming is default disable.

In general, Nebula support most of the latest feature, even if you mention you prefer standalone mode in other post, we still encourage you to give it a try.
Thank you.

Silvia

NWA50AX / NWA210AX - questions

Best Answers

All Replies

"correct and add more addition information here:
RF power of NWA50AX and NWA210AX
Because NWA210AX is 4x4 antenna design, it has array gain 3dB and the antenna gain is 3 dB higher than NWA50AX.
EU RF regulation is EIRP, the power of NWA210AX isn’t smaller than NWA50AX."

Categories

Wireless Help Center

NWA50AX / NWA210AX - questions

Best Answers

All Replies

"correct and add more addition information here: RF power of NWA50AX and NWA210AXBecause NWA210AX is 4x4 antenna design, it has array gain 3dB and the antenna gain is 3 dB higher than NWA50AX.EU RF regulation is EIRP, the power of NWA210AX isn’t smaller than NWA50AX."

Categories

Wireless Help Center

"correct and add more addition information here:
RF power of NWA50AX and NWA210AX
Because NWA210AX is 4x4 antenna design, it has array gain 3dB and the antenna gain is 3 dB higher than NWA50AX.
EU RF regulation is EIRP, the power of NWA210AX isn’t smaller than NWA50AX."